Bass horn 816 good for home use?? Which model?

[atilsley]

Thanks GM....

Am I loosing much by 'only' having the driver/horn run up to 15,000hz? What was the range of the Model 19, for example...?

[GM]

You're welcome!

It depends on the source material and one's HF hearing response. At best, for men AFAIK, they will perceive a bit more detail/'air' around some instruments while for at least some women it's the difference between a properly tonally balanced HF harmonic structure or not. Indeed, I found that for noisy and/or sloppy recordings, at least younger women preferred a system that was pretty much done by 15 kHz, especially if listening to FM radio.

On axis and depending on where the HF adjustment is set and assuming a fresh diaphragm, the M-19 is solid to 20 kHz.

Regardless, adding a super tweeter isn't so much about getting to 20 kHz than it is about the sound quality (SQ) of the HF and controlling it over a wider 'sweet spot'. Even the 1" exit drivers are just making break-up noise off its suspension at these high frequencies with it's throat size controlling them, ergo some reflections get added to the mix since it's much too big for 20 kHz and if the mouth isn't damped enough, then between more reflective 'scatter' off it and eigenmodes reflecting back to the throat to modulate the delayed HF, there's no real SQ.

A larger diaphragm/throat then will start breaking up sooner and add more reflections to the mix, so HF SQ can only be worse, ergo EQing it flat out to 15-20 kHz isn't something I'm going to recommend unless it's coupled to a plenum loaded mega multi-cell similar to Jensen's 32 cell behemoth where there's so many close coupled super tweeter horns that we perceive it as a huge, very wide BW point source.


Anyway, as 'bowtie' noted in your other thread, there's duplex compression drivers available now to deal with this once frustrating 'juggling act' of trade-offs.

GM

[atilsley]

GM, thanks....I like the concept of the BMS co-ax drivers for sure...but I'm trying to stay with 'Altec' (GPA) in order to promote the name/gear here in Oz....hence me agonizing over 1-inch, 2-inch format etc.

At the end of the day, I'm trying to build a system that will be well suited to average room size listening, two-way, moderate horn size and 'moderate' bass cabinet. If the 416 runs nicely to 1,000hz, then the 1-inch 902 GPA driver might just do the trick for the rest.

If I move to a three-way, then I'll go for a 2-inch driver for the 1,000-7,000 range, then tweeter etc.

[Captgonzo]

Y


Anyway, as 'bowtie' noted in your other thread, there's duplex compression drivers available now to deal with this once frustrating 'juggling act' of trade-offs.

GM

Those co-ax drivers are cool, but what horn loads the driver down to below 1khz and has good qualities above 10khz? I just want to know how people think about choosing horns for something like that.

[analog addict]

Primarily to contain fiberglass dust, so some sort of fabric stretched over it which can add a bit more damping and esthetically pleasing too depending on what you choose.

GM

The fiberglass dust hasn't bothered me so far, but I have considered fabric, even some sort of plastic like Tyvek, but it this piont due to cost and time constraints, I have chosen the path of least resistance (or is it the path of least effort?) and done nothing....

[GM]

Those co-ax drivers are cool, but what horn loads the driver down to below 1khz and has good qualities above 10khz? I just want to know how people think about choosing horns for something like that.

The entire HF horn is built into the driver, so the horn is chosen no differently than if it was a wide BW driver such as a 399.

GM

[Captgonzo]

Ok - that makes sense now. Thanks!

[voice of the theater]

GM, thanks....I like the concept of the BMS co-ax drivers for sure...but I'm trying to stay with 'Altec' (GPA) in order to promote the name/gear here in Oz....hence me agonizing over 1-inch, 2-inch format etc.

At the end of the day, I'm trying to build a system that will be well suited to average room size listening, two-way, moderate horn size and 'moderate' bass cabinet. If the 416 runs nicely to 1,000hz, then the 1-inch 902 GPA driver might just do the trick for the rest.

If I move to a three-way, then I'll go for a 2-inch driver for the 1,000-7,000 range, then tweeter etc.

Nice that you want to promote Altec/Great Plains Audio in Australia/New Zealand. New 416's and 902's from GPA would work very well together if you want to keep things 2 way (as you suggested)--you could even use a cabinet with a similar volume to a Model 19. You'd want to stay away from most larger format h.f. drivers in a two way system if you want response up to 20,000 hz. I've also heard (but have not yet confirmed) that GPA is now manufacturing brand new 802-8G drivers (the drivers that were used in most Model 19's--the 902's were used toward the end of their production) and those would be a great choice as well. A 416 used with either H.F. GPA driver (with an appropriate horn)--you'd basically be making a speaker very similar to Model 19's as long as you have "good" crossovers with the necessary h.f. compensation. I think it is safe to say you'd be making some of the best sounding speakers "down under". Please keep us up to date with details and photos if you move forward with this GPA/Altec project.....

[Cal Weldon]

but I have considered fabric, even some sort of plastic like Tyvek,

No, not Tyvek. Tyvek will allow more moisture into the wall cavity than can easily be dried through the outside wall. Either something with a very low perm rating (read vapour retarder) or nothing at all.

[analog addict]

No, not Tyvek. Tyvek will allow more moisture into the wall cavity than can easily be dried through the outside wall. Either something with a very low perm rating (read vapour retarder) or nothing at all.

Already decided against it, mainly due to the fire issue. And I do have a dehumidifier set up and running automatically....